-
nico_32
archive.org/details/NoobRPG <= they have a public alpha but i found in the same folder older build :)
-
tech234a
-
tech234a
GitHub repo is gone but PyPi listing is still up
-
OrIdow6
(Copied+pasted in -bs, as I thought this was also of on-topic interest)
-
Wayward
Just seen this on reddit DataHoarders too :(
-
Wayward
-s
-
Wayward
One thing I'm not clear on is how these "rolling cipher technical protection measures" that YouTube is said to employ and that youtube-dl is said to circomvent, the main basis of this DMCA claim, is even a thing. What makes youtube-dl any different from a web browser that poles data from YouTube in order to display it or store it in memory, cache, harddisk space?
-
Wayward
Every web browser MUST definitionally circomvent these measures
-
Wayward
My second complaint is this asserting (US)DMCA based on meanings only adopted by the EU; "effective technical measure within the meaning of EU". These two legal systems are incompatible with one another.
-
OrIdow6
It counts as circumvention because the law is concerned with humans and not computers, and even though it's technically the same algorithm it's used for different purposes
-
Wayward
OrIdow6: So, if a web browser automatically caches or saves all video/media content to the hard disk drive for offline viewing, performance optimization, is that still circumvention? Does YouTube explicitly prohibit a browser from functioning in such a way?
-
maxfan8
I'm not a lawyer -- do any of you guys think this DMCA takedown request will be countered?
-
OrIdow6
Wayward: At least in a non-legal sense, if a human extracts things from the cache in order to bypass copyright protections, it's circumvention (again, I can't comment on the legal meaning)
-
OrIdow6
If, in a hypothetical, the browser bypasses copyright protections (in a way directly known to its authors), but only for performance reasons, it's on the border in my terminology
-
OrIdow6
What the RIAA, its members, and by and large the public/government care about here is that a copyright owner should be able to benefit from their property, in practice to sell it
-
OrIdow6
The takedown letter tried to prove (fairly convincingly, it looks to me) that Youtube-dl advertised itself as being able to bypass copyright restrictions, and there were components of it created specially to bypass Youtube's protections on videos of high copyright value
-
OrIdow6
Obviously the actual law is much more fine, but in the abstract all computers/networks are a single black box, and what matters is who produces the music/videos and who consumes them
-
Wayward
Seems strange to me that a Web Browser even makes a legal distinction between data that is only displayed ephemerally on a view screen, versus data that persists on a storage device for later view screen rendering. And I thought we solved this issue of 'time shift' in the courts with the VCR, and again with DVR cable boxes, satellite boxes, and the original TiVo brand DVR.
-
Wayward
-
Wayward
> Justice John Paul Stevens’ majority opinion in the case deemed home videotaping legal in the United States. The ruling also bore an important principle that has been used time and time again in lawsuits – if a product has a substantial, legitimate use it can be sold, even if some consumers use it illegitimately.
-
Wayward
It's not even the act of videotaping that was in contention, but the unlawful duplication and sale of videotapes. The American citizen has always had a patent right to preserve their auditory and visual stimuli into long term record. That is. The right to download videos they watch on YouTube for later recall.
-
OrIdow6
To my understanding what's being invoked here is a part of the DMCA that forbids devices created to bypass copyright-restrictive technical measures, even if the duplication/sharing would otherwise be legal
-
Wayward
I just don't see this as being any sort of restrictive technical measure, as it employs standard internet downloading schema
-
Wayward
otherwise the web browser could not function
-
Wayward
And even if The Price Is Right (tv game show) offered for sale VHS copy of the day's televized show, that doesn't distract the home viewer from producing their own recording on their own equipment. Even if that does bite into the network's sales figures.
-
OrIdow6
It's true that the technological basis (HTTP, Javascript, etc.) is common enough, but what was built on top of that meant that it was non-trivial to get usable copies of the videos, and deliberately so
-
Wayward
OrIdow6: Then how does every web browser do it effortlessly without special closed-source drivers?
-
OrIdow6
This is effectively equivalent to a sandboxed closed-source driver
-
Wayward
It is?
-
Wayward
I mean, the Broadcom cellular CDMA/GSM decoders are closed-source and nobody is allowed to write their own CDMA/GSM communications bundle, because it's a private secret
-
OrIdow6
It's technically possible to dissassemble it, and then interpret the result of that, just as it is with whatever obfuscation Youtube was using
-
Wayward
But does YouTube actually do something to that effect beyond a time expirey token?
-
OrIdow6
To what effect?
-
Wayward
to the effect of writing their own transfer protocols
-
Wayward
like their own private video game Client/Server model
-
Wayward
but even still, the VCR has a privileged right to record anything that the view screen can see
-
Wayward
protected by the highest courts
-
OrIdow6
They have something similar to their own transfer protocols, in the "rolling cipher" as the video traveled over the network
-
Wayward
it does this by decoding the signal that would otherwise be decoded by the television, using intercepted signals
-
OrIdow6
Television isn't expressly designed to be difficult to decode
-
Wayward
neither are the packets received from YouTube. They're clear
-
Wayward
not enciphered
-
Wayward
This is what I mean by the EU courts are incompatible with the US courts, because I don't think we see this as a meaningful cipher in the legal sense
-
Wayward
there has to be an unknowable secret for it to be a cipher, and no cryptographic attack is being committed, right?
-
Wayward
that is, i think it's too trivial to rise to the standard of "circomventing encryption"
-
OrIdow6
The DMCA, in intention, isn't about how copy protection is implemented technically, it's about whether it's present or not
-
OrIdow6
When software was distributed on disks, software authors would add copy protection schemes that worked by checking, at runtime, whether the disk had physical characteristics that couldn't be easily duplicated by end users
-
arkiver
oof
-
OrIdow6
Other companies would make products to bypass these protection schemes by intercepting and faking the system calls etc., all on the open market
-
arkiver
so youtube-dl is gone
-
arkiver
not sure if we got it with the github project
-
OrIdow6
There was no encryption involved there, but the DMCA still outlawed this (as I understand)
-
JAA
arkiver: Unless we grabbed it very recently, nope.
-
Ryz
!ig 9lhykd8hnfypo456gwf3ep910 ^https?://secureir\.ebaystatic\.com/
-
Ryz
Oops
-
Wayward
OrIdow6: The DMCA still doesn't overrule the Sony Corp. v. Universal Studios decision
-
Wayward
DVD has protections, but you're still allowed to intercept the decoded signal and record it to VHS or TiVo
-
JAA
-
JAA
Yeah, let's link to other places where the code can still be found in the DMCA notice.
-
JAA
Great fucking idea. lol
-
OrIdow6
If that was the case to an absolute extent, presumably anti-circumvention part of the DMCA would only apply to software; I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the legal details, but that the RIAA seems to think this has a chance suggests that that's not the case
-
OrIdow6
They work hard in the letter to GitHub to try to establish that infringement is a major and intended use of Youtube-dl
-
OrIdow6
Which sounds like it may be influenced by that decision
-
JAA
I haven't read the entire discussion, but if this is valid, surely libdvdcss and libbluray would've been DMCA'd years ago, right?
-
JAA
Not that the fuckers didn't try, but those projects are still alive and well with forks on GitHub and whatnot.
-
OrIdow6
-
tech234a
Someone posted a link in -bs... apparently contributors are facing legal action
-
OrIdow6
Maybe they don't go after it because it's French
-
nico_32
vlc have their own gitweb service
-
nico_32
hosted on french server
-
nico_32
so dmca do not apply :)
-
JAA
Well yeah, not DMCA, but the relevant EU legislation.
-
nico_32
we have HADOPI in France
-
nico_32
that manage the 3-strike policy
-
nico_32
and the whole DRM situation
-
nico_32
VLC managed to get a legal advise from hadopi
-
nico_32
that make any move against them
-
nico_32
seriously hazardous for everyone
-
nico_32
so everyone keep the status quo
-
lunik1
it appears there is an intact and up-to-date mirror of youtube-dl's source code on gitee
-
JAA
Yep, was already mentioned and grabbed.
-
JAA
There are also several copies on GitHub.
-
lunik1
ah in -bs my bad.